One final thought. (Back in Greece and it is 3:00 am local and can’t sleep). Roger will know the chemistry:  bottom paint contains Cu oxide? Common acid based cleaners ( phosphoric acid and HCl come to mind) would react with the Cu in the paint, no?

Chris Geankoplis
Enosis
Rhodes Greece

On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 2:24 AM Tom Van Heule <
tom.vanheule at intrinsicprograms.com> wrote:

> Agreed mark.  I will have the 3rd party check tomorrow ..
>
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 6:15 PM Mark Whipple <mark at whipplefamily.com> wrote:
>
> > Tom,
> >
> > Another possible approach: get someone with experience (a marine
> surveyor?)
> > who is not affiliated with the yard to take a look at your hull and
> render
> > an opinion. Better to have one set of eyes on the hull in person than a
> > dozen or more looking at digital photographs. If there is damage you'll
> > need someone to give you an estimate anyway. It just seems very curious
> to
> > me that anything they might use to detail your boat would strip paint and
> > gelcoat off the hull. Lawsuits and such take their own toll on both
> > parties.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > Boston, MA
> >
> > 2000 R22 *Luna Mia*
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 6:40 PM Shawn Boles <shawn.sustain at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Tom:
> > >
> > > I've sailed my 86, refurbished in 2010, in an algae and weed infested
> > > freshwater lake for over a decade. Never a problem with the finish -
> the
> > > yard washes her at both ends of the season.
> > >
> > > I say sue the incompetent liar. With respect to swearing, I think
> > teaching
> > > your child righteous anger in the real world is a good thing.
> > >
> > > My 2 bitcoins worth.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Shawn
> > > s/ v Sweet Baboo
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 5:10 PM Tom Van Heule <
> > > tom.vanheule at intrinsicprograms.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > The boat house owner whom I spoke with said he would talk with his
> guy
> > > > tomorrow about what happened.  He is aware I seek damages Infront of
> > > > putting in next year.
> > > >
> > > > We assume, dearest Stan....  The hull coats are maintainable, I know
> at
> > > > least 2 Rhodie's who have had zero issues.  I'm sure Rodger and
> Jessie
> > > and
> > > > Peter and Marylou and every other awesome rhodie I can't mention in
> > > passion
> > > > would agree.  Out boats don't suck... Someone stripped me.? Lol
> > > >
> > > > A bit miffed, but always trying to find joy/kindness,
> > > > Love our r22,
> > > > Tom
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 4:30 PM Tom Van Heule <
> > > > tom.vanheule at intrinsicprograms.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I'd hate to tax him... As inevitably I would need a new bottom,
> just
> > > > > didn't think this soon.... after one detailing.  I spoke with
> another
> > > r22
> > > > > owner who mirrored your sentiment that something is "foul".
> > > > >
> > > > >  As Stan mentions inbox backup...  I will await his keen
> observation
> > of
> > > > > this thread. I don't find anything specific in the reference
> > materials.
> > > > We
> > > > > sure love our boat and want to ensure it's appreciation in value.
> > > (Triple
> > > > > printing USD these last two years aside)
> > > > >
> > > > > All comments on this appreciated,
> > > > > Fair winds,
> > > > > Tom
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 4:11 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Tom,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I think Stan is your best resource here.  He would be most
> > > knowledgeable
> > > > >> about how the bottom was coated.  See if you can get an opinion
> from
> > > > him.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Roger Pihlaja
> > > > >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > On Oct 20, 2021, at 4:44 PM, Tom Van Heule <
> > > > >> tom.vanheule at intrinsicprograms.com> wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > F...
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Any details I can use to build my case would be greatly
> > appreciated.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > What WAS there? How should they have KNOWN how to treat it?  Any
> > > > >> resource
> > > > >> > that shows something like this? Maybe someone on YouTube or
> > > something
> > > > >> has
> > > > >> > covered this seemingly basic task? I do not believe the R22 has
> > some
> > > > >> "super
> > > > >> > special fancy boat coating that the other 100k boats they
> service
> > > > >> doesn't?”
> > > > >> > I will gladly tell you all the shop, but only after I know how
> > they
> > > > F'd
> > > > >> up.
> > > > >> > Pardon my french.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I have a habit of making a scene... Today I had my 7yo son with
> > > me...
> > > > >> And I
> > > > >> > try to minimize his exposure to "daddy flew off the handle
> because
> > > his
> > > > >> > expectations were failed by a fucking professional".
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Ooo I swore again... Admittedly I am not looking for a $$$$.xx
> > > spend.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I do have insurance.... As mentioned before.. it's better I
> > minimize
> > > > >> > exposure to them.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Meltzer knows... Lol
> > > > >> > Thanks everyone.  I'd like to wrap this up fast.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I suppose for now I will call them and make them aware I am
> > > > >> > unhappy/aware/centeringmyself that they caused damage.?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Enough ramble for now, thanks again,
> > > > >> > Tom
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 3:33 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <
> > roger_pihlaja at msn.com
> > > >
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> Tom,
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> That looks like you’re thru the gelcoat right down to the FRP
> > > > >> substrate.
> > > > >> >> Yes, you need a refinish before you put the boat back in the
> > water
> > > or
> > > > >> even
> > > > >> >> expose it to much UV.  If it was my boat, I would have had a
> fit!
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> Roger Pihlaja
> > > > >> >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> Sent from Mail<
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=04%7C01%7C%7C75e9626457c44942fab308d9940a7224%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637703594868046738%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=BNZaZowiYPlBS5H4SNWVGjR8ToxukMiK6eWaTlzR6%2BE%3D&reserved=0
> > > > >
> > > > >> for Windows
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> From: Tom Van Heule<mailto:tom.vanheule at intrinsicprograms.com>
> > > > >> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 4:30 PM
> > > > >> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >
> > > > >> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Detail fail?
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> Ooooof...
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> 1. I silently paid and left.
> > > > >> >> 2. I can cancel their payment, but would prefer to talk it out.
> > > > >> >> 3. They told me it was fine... Are you saying I need a refinish
> > > now?
> > > > >> >> 4. I dropped it at storage this afternoon. Do I need to deal
> with
> > > > this
> > > > >> now?
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> I figured I would need a bottom paint every 2 years sitting in
> > lake
> > > > >> >> Michigan. Not every year.
> > > > >> >> Could it be that the boat has a saltwater paint and these
> > > freshwater
> > > > >> guys
> > > > >> >> messed it up?
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> It looks like a like buffing compound, or lake life, that's
> been
> > > > >> ground in
> > > > >> >> by the buffing?
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> I've never had a boat professionally cleaned.  Usually I just
> hit
> > > it
> > > > >> with
> > > > >> >> the power washer and mcquires, or something like that and a
> > > brush...
> > > > >> No
> > > > >> >> idea what chemicals they used... I will follow up.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 2:14 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <
> > > roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>> Tom,
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>> Any chance they had some hydroblasting media mixed into their
> > > > pressure
> > > > >> >>> washer that day?  Is their liability insurance going to cover
> > it?
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>> Since the bottom is obviously down to the FRP substrate, you
> are
> > > > >> going to
> > > > >> >>> have to refinish the bottom.  May I recommend WEST system
> epoxy
> > > with
> > > > >> >> their
> > > > >> >>> 422 barrier coat additive.  At least you won’t have to worry
> > about
> > > > >> >> osmotic
> > > > >> >>> blisters!
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>> Roger Pihlaja
> > > > >> >>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>> Sent from Mail<
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=04%7C01%7C%7C75e9626457c44942fab308d9940a7224%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637703594868056697%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=loTXidNCJevCJWWC1K0zGR%2F2wcQZPlDvPo9obVlJKmI%3D&reserved=0
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >> for Windows
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>> From: Tom Van Heule<mailto:tom.vanheule at intrinsicprograms.com
> >
> > > > >> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 2:15 PM
> > > > >> >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List<mailto:
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >> >>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Detail fail?
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>> They said they have never seen a boat do this from their
> > cleaning?
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>> Thoughts?
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>> The rest of the boat looks great... But for a $800+ full
> > > detail....
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>> It was showroom clean at the beginning of the season.
> > > > >> >>> -------------- next part --------------
> > > > >> >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
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> > > > >> >>> Size: 282274 bytes
> > > > >> >>> Desc: not available
> > > > >> >>> URL: <
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20211020%2Fb34a7a55%2Fattachment.jpg&data=04%7C01%7C%7C75e9626457c44942fab308d9940a7224%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637703594868056697%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=qrIkI1Inxzyo5loD0ZRm8yX8ZiArAvwx9iQRX9%2BnKkY%3D&reserved=0
> > > > >> >>>>
> > > > >> >>> -------------- next part --------------
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> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20211020%2Fb34a7a55%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&data=04%7C01%7C%7C75e9626457c44942fab308d9940a7224%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637703594868056697%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=qYWCFMnfiTYtZyuEqhbBbwBk8dPee4tokk30W0JKkaw%3D&reserved=0
> > > > >> >>>>
> > > > >> >>> -------------- next part --------------
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> > > > >> >>> URL: <
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20211020%2Fb34a7a55%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&data=04%7C01%7C%7C75e9626457c44942fab308d9940a7224%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637703594868056697%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SlIgSktK5iKIaBIHqXo9BXdhGt%2BwNyn2TvzI4%2BqRDoo%3D&reserved=0
> > > > >> >>>>
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>