Todd,

Huh?  Why would I want to do that?

Roger Pihlaja 
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 23, 2020, at 7:26 PM, Todd Tavares <tavares0947 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Roger,
> 
> Didn't you link the backing plate of your bow deck cleat to the backing
> plate of the bow eye?
> 
> Todd T.
> 
> tavares0947 at gmail.com
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 5:52 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> There is a real advantage to rigging the anchor line thru the bow eye vs.
>> directly to the bow cleat.  The choice of the bow eye vs. the bow cleat has
>> a significant effect on the anchor scope.  This is because the bow eye is
>> ~1.5 ft closer to the water vs the bow cleat.  For example, suppose we are
>> anchoring in 7 feet of water.  The bow eye is ~2 feet above the water and
>> the bow cleat is ~3.5 feet above the water.  Suppose we let out 65 feet of
>> anchor rode.  The scope using the bow eye is 65 / (7 + 2) = 7.2  The scope
>> using the bow cleat is 65 / (7 + 3.5) = 6.2  A scope of 7.2 is sufficient
>> for decent overnight holding with a minimum 65 foot radius swing circle.  A
>> scope of 6.2 is marginal for an overnight night stay.  Sometimes, there
>> isn’t sufficient swing room to let out more anchor rode, say if you are the
>> last boat to drop the hook in a crowded anchorage.  In addition, it’s
>> considered bad anchoring etiquette to use up all the swing room in an
>> anchorage even if you are the first one there.
>> 
>> Fortunately, you don’t have to tie off to the bow eye in order to get the
>> scope advantage of using it.  Simply run the anchor rode thru the bow eye
>> first, then up to the bow cleat, and cleat it off.  This will give you all
>> the scope advantage of using the bow eye and all the ease of tying off to
>> the bow cleat.  When departing, reach down and hook the anchor rode with a
>> boat hook below the bow eye.  Pull the anchor rode on board, hang on to it,
>> and then uncleat the rode from the bow cleat.  Easy peasy and no stress on
>> the knees!
>> 
>> I always use the bow eye in the manner described above.  There is just no
>> reason not to, the extra safety margin on scope helps me sleep better, and
>> I don’t annoy my fellow boaters.
>> 
>> Roger Pihlaja
>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>> 
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>> 
>> From: Lowe, Rob<mailto:rlowe at vt.edu>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 10:16 AM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>; Art
>> Czerwonky<mailto:a_czerwonky at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines
>> 
>> I must say I read that wrong.  Even though I responded bow eye, I was
>> thinking bow cleat.  I agree with Graham's method using two lines running
>> through the chocks to the bow cleat.  - rob
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf of Art
>> Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 10:03 AM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines
>> 
>> I agree fully with your recommendation, Graham. The bow eye is not
>> suitable for the shock loads of mooring.  Art CzerwonkyMaryJane, Atlanta
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>> 
>>  On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:44 AM, Graham Stewart<gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
>> wrote:   Personally I prefer to not use the bow eye for mooring. For one
>> thing it is difficult to reach the bow eye if you have old knees. I prefer
>> to rune two nylon lines from the mooring through the chocks and to the bow
>> cleat. It is much easier to attach and release and gives you two lines
>> instead of one. I have no doubt that either the eye or the cleat is plenty
>> strong. Whichever you use do not connect the boat to the mooring with chain.
>> 
>> Graham Stewart
>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22
>> Kingston Ontario
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf
>> Of Lowe, Rob
>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 9:02 AM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines
>> 
>> I can't speak for Stan, but I've never heard of a bow eye on the Rhodes
>> giving way.  Still doesn't mean it can't happen.  I'd inspect the backing
>> plate up in the V berth next time you can and see if it's snug and looks
>> adequate.  - rob
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf of
>> Goodness <spreadgoodnews at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:36 PM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines
>> 
>> I went with a mooring this year.  Stan do you think the bow eye alone can
>> hold? A noreaster is rolling into my anchorage tonight!
>> ?
>> 
>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 5:01 PM, Sean Allen <seanallen1206 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Thanks Jay (and all) as this has been really helpful.
>>> 
>>> I've got 6 pilings in my slip. I was thinking of using two 3/8" bow lines
>>> around each piling with snubbers both connected to the bow cleat, then
>> two
>>> 3/8" stern lines with snubbers each connected from the piling to each
>> stern
>>> cleat, and I think i might put spring cleats in approximately mid-ship by
>>> the windows and run a 1/2" spring line with snubbers on each side (using
>>> the grab rails temporarily).
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:15 PM Jay Friedland <jayf401 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Sean,
>>>> I should also add that the Tide-minders prevent any side movement in my
>>>> relatively narrow slip. On the spring lines, I use heavy-duty snubbers
>> (for
>>>> up to 5/8” line) to give the boat some forward movement beyond the
>> stretch
>>>> of the lines. With the occasional excessive tides, I use the midship
>> cleat
>>>> adjustment along with the snubbers to keep the boat centered with
>> tension,
>>>> not just the extreme stretch of the spring lines.
>>>> Jay
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 1:58 PM, Jay Friedland <JayF401 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sean,
>>>>> It all depends on the exposure to the elements. Mel & I are on the same
>>>> island but completely different factors to deal with. Mel is fairly
>>>> protected in a lagoon, so his lines are fine for that location.
>> Wanderlust
>>>> is in a  narrow slip in a marina with a sea wall surrounding the boats.
>> It
>>>> has 11’ of clearance, and exposed to high winds, some wave action and
>> up to
>>>> 2-1/2’ of tidal change. While it’s not all visible in the attached photo
>>>> (if it’s not stripped away), is the following, using all 1/2” lines-
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1) bow lines to pilings at a 90°
>>>>> 2) spring lines to adjustable midship cleats on 1” T-tracks, 30” of
>>>> movement
>>>>> 3) Tide-minders on each stern line
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’ve been through over 12 seasons of squalls, glancing hurricanes,
>>>> excessive tides and only have to worry about other people’s boats. The
>>>> other advantage of midship cleats is the versatility of docking in many
>>>> situations. I hope this helps.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jay Friedland
>>>>> S/v Wanderlust, ‘97
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> <Screen Shot 2020-04-22 at 1.40.16 PM.png>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 1:22 PM, Sean Allen <seanallen1206 at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:seanallen1206 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm launching my boat in to a new slip in a few weeks and I'm curious
>> if
>>>>>> and how other Rhodes owners use spring lines? Mine only has one bow
>>>> cleat
>>>>>> and two on the stern.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've heard of others using the grab rail on the bulk head mentioned.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Has anyone installed additional cleats? Is that advisable?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The marina is in tidal waters (Barnegat Bay) with quite a bit of wake
>>>> on a
>>>>>> daily basis.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sean
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 5:52 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> There is a real advantage to rigging the anchor line thru the bow eye vs.
>> directly to the bow cleat.  The choice of the bow eye vs. the bow cleat has
>> a significant effect on the anchor scope.  This is because the bow eye is
>> ~1.5 ft closer to the water vs the bow cleat.  For example, suppose we are
>> anchoring in 7 feet of water.  The bow eye is ~2 feet above the water and
>> the bow cleat is ~3.5 feet above the water.  Suppose we let out 65 feet of
>> anchor rode.  The scope using the bow eye is 65 / (7 + 2) = 7.2  The scope
>> using the bow cleat is 65 / (7 + 3.5) = 6.2  A scope of 7.2 is sufficient
>> for decent overnight holding with a minimum 65 foot radius swing circle.  A
>> scope of 6.2 is marginal for an overnight night stay.  Sometimes, there
>> isn’t sufficient swing room to let out more anchor rode, say if you are the
>> last boat to drop the hook in a crowded anchorage.  In addition, it’s
>> considered bad anchoring etiquette to use up all the swing room in an
>> anchorage even if you are the first one there.
>> 
>> Fortunately, you don’t have to tie off to the bow eye in order to get the
>> scope advantage of using it.  Simply run the anchor rode thru the bow eye
>> first, then up to the bow cleat, and cleat it off.  This will give you all
>> the scope advantage of using the bow eye and all the ease of tying off to
>> the bow cleat.  When departing, reach down and hook the anchor rode with a
>> boat hook below the bow eye.  Pull the anchor rode on board, hang on to it,
>> and then uncleat the rode from the bow cleat.  Easy peasy and no stress on
>> the knees!
>> 
>> I always use the bow eye in the manner described above.  There is just no
>> reason not to, the extra safety margin on scope helps me sleep better, and
>> I don’t annoy my fellow boaters.
>> 
>> Roger Pihlaja
>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>> 
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>> 
>> From: Lowe, Rob<mailto:rlowe at vt.edu>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 10:16 AM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>; Art
>> Czerwonky<mailto:a_czerwonky at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines
>> 
>> I must say I read that wrong.  Even though I responded bow eye, I was
>> thinking bow cleat.  I agree with Graham's method using two lines running
>> through the chocks to the bow cleat.  - rob
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf of Art
>> Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 10:03 AM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines
>> 
>> I agree fully with your recommendation, Graham. The bow eye is not
>> suitable for the shock loads of mooring.  Art CzerwonkyMaryJane, Atlanta
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>> 
>>  On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:44 AM, Graham Stewart<gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
>> wrote:   Personally I prefer to not use the bow eye for mooring. For one
>> thing it is difficult to reach the bow eye if you have old knees. I prefer
>> to rune two nylon lines from the mooring through the chocks and to the bow
>> cleat. It is much easier to attach and release and gives you two lines
>> instead of one. I have no doubt that either the eye or the cleat is plenty
>> strong. Whichever you use do not connect the boat to the mooring with chain.
>> 
>> Graham Stewart
>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22
>> Kingston Ontario
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf
>> Of Lowe, Rob
>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 9:02 AM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines
>> 
>> I can't speak for Stan, but I've never heard of a bow eye on the Rhodes
>> giving way.  Still doesn't mean it can't happen.  I'd inspect the backing
>> plate up in the V berth next time you can and see if it's snug and looks
>> adequate.  - rob
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf of
>> Goodness <spreadgoodnews at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:36 PM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines
>> 
>> I went with a mooring this year.  Stan do you think the bow eye alone can
>> hold? A noreaster is rolling into my anchorage tonight!
>> ?
>> 
>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 5:01 PM, Sean Allen <seanallen1206 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Thanks Jay (and all) as this has been really helpful.
>>> 
>>> I've got 6 pilings in my slip. I was thinking of using two 3/8" bow lines
>>> around each piling with snubbers both connected to the bow cleat, then
>> two
>>> 3/8" stern lines with snubbers each connected from the piling to each
>> stern
>>> cleat, and I think i might put spring cleats in approximately mid-ship by
>>> the windows and run a 1/2" spring line with snubbers on each side (using
>>> the grab rails temporarily).
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:15 PM Jay Friedland <jayf401 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Sean,
>>>> I should also add that the Tide-minders prevent any side movement in my
>>>> relatively narrow slip. On the spring lines, I use heavy-duty snubbers
>> (for
>>>> up to 5/8” line) to give the boat some forward movement beyond the
>> stretch
>>>> of the lines. With the occasional excessive tides, I use the midship
>> cleat
>>>> adjustment along with the snubbers to keep the boat centered with
>> tension,
>>>> not just the extreme stretch of the spring lines.
>>>> Jay
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 1:58 PM, Jay Friedland <JayF401 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sean,
>>>>> It all depends on the exposure to the elements. Mel & I are on the same
>>>> island but completely different factors to deal with. Mel is fairly
>>>> protected in a lagoon, so his lines are fine for that location.
>> Wanderlust
>>>> is in a  narrow slip in a marina with a sea wall surrounding the boats.
>> It
>>>> has 11’ of clearance, and exposed to high winds, some wave action and
>> up to
>>>> 2-1/2’ of tidal change. While it’s not all visible in the attached photo
>>>> (if it’s not stripped away), is the following, using all 1/2” lines-
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1) bow lines to pilings at a 90°
>>>>> 2) spring lines to adjustable midship cleats on 1” T-tracks, 30” of
>>>> movement
>>>>> 3) Tide-minders on each stern line
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’ve been through over 12 seasons of squalls, glancing hurricanes,
>>>> excessive tides and only have to worry about other people’s boats. The
>>>> other advantage of midship cleats is the versatility of docking in many
>>>> situations. I hope this helps.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jay Friedland
>>>>> S/v Wanderlust, ‘97
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> <Screen Shot 2020-04-22 at 1.40.16 PM.png>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 1:22 PM, Sean Allen <seanallen1206 at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:seanallen1206 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm launching my boat in to a new slip in a few weeks and I'm curious
>> if
>>>>>> and how other Rhodes owners use spring lines? Mine only has one bow
>>>> cleat
>>>>>> and two on the stern.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've heard of others using the grab rail on the bulk head mentioned.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Has anyone installed additional cleats? Is that advisable?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The marina is in tidal waters (Barnegat Bay) with quite a bit of wake
>>>> on a
>>>>>> daily basis.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sean
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>