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2020-04-23; 20:18:55 EDT
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2002-08-01
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Todd, Huh? Why would I want to do that? Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium Sent from my iPhoneSee the original archive post
> On Apr 23, 2020, at 7:26 PM, Todd Tavares <tavares0947 at gmail.com> wrote: > > ?Roger, > > Didn't you link the backing plate of your bow deck cleat to the backing > plate of the bow eye? > > Todd T. > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > >> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 5:52 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> There is a real advantage to rigging the anchor line thru the bow eye vs. >> directly to the bow cleat. The choice of the bow eye vs. the bow cleat has >> a significant effect on the anchor scope. This is because the bow eye is >> ~1.5 ft closer to the water vs the bow cleat. For example, suppose we are >> anchoring in 7 feet of water. The bow eye is ~2 feet above the water and >> the bow cleat is ~3.5 feet above the water. Suppose we let out 65 feet of >> anchor rode. The scope using the bow eye is 65 / (7 + 2) = 7.2 The scope >> using the bow cleat is 65 / (7 + 3.5) = 6.2 A scope of 7.2 is sufficient >> for decent overnight holding with a minimum 65 foot radius swing circle. A >> scope of 6.2 is marginal for an overnight night stay. Sometimes, there >> isn’t sufficient swing room to let out more anchor rode, say if you are the >> last boat to drop the hook in a crowded anchorage. In addition, it’s >> considered bad anchoring etiquette to use up all the swing room in an >> anchorage even if you are the first one there. >> >> Fortunately, you don’t have to tie off to the bow eye in order to get the >> scope advantage of using it. Simply run the anchor rode thru the bow eye >> first, then up to the bow cleat, and cleat it off. This will give you all >> the scope advantage of using the bow eye and all the ease of tying off to >> the bow cleat. When departing, reach down and hook the anchor rode with a >> boat hook below the bow eye. Pull the anchor rode on board, hang on to it, >> and then uncleat the rode from the bow cleat. Easy peasy and no stress on >> the knees! >> >> I always use the bow eye in the manner described above. There is just no >> reason not to, the extra safety margin on scope helps me sleep better, and >> I don’t annoy my fellow boaters. >> >> Roger Pihlaja >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium >> >> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for >> Windows 10 >> >> From: Lowe, Rob<mailto:rlowe at vt.edu> >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 10:16 AM >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>; Art >> Czerwonky<mailto:a_czerwonky at yahoo.com> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines >> >> I must say I read that wrong. Even though I responded bow eye, I was >> thinking bow cleat. I agree with Graham's method using two lines running >> through the chocks to the bow cleat. - rob >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf of Art >> Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 10:03 AM >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines >> >> I agree fully with your recommendation, Graham. The bow eye is not >> suitable for the shock loads of mooring. Art CzerwonkyMaryJane, Atlanta >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >> >> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:44 AM, Graham Stewart<gstewart8 at cogeco.ca> >> wrote: Personally I prefer to not use the bow eye for mooring. For one >> thing it is difficult to reach the bow eye if you have old knees. I prefer >> to rune two nylon lines from the mooring through the chocks and to the bow >> cleat. It is much easier to attach and release and gives you two lines >> instead of one. I have no doubt that either the eye or the cleat is plenty >> strong. Whichever you use do not connect the boat to the mooring with chain. >> >> Graham Stewart >> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >> Kingston Ontario >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf >> Of Lowe, Rob >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 9:02 AM >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines >> >> I can't speak for Stan, but I've never heard of a bow eye on the Rhodes >> giving way. Still doesn't mean it can't happen. I'd inspect the backing >> plate up in the V berth next time you can and see if it's snug and looks >> adequate. - rob >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf of >> Goodness <spreadgoodnews at gmail.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:36 PM >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines >> >> I went with a mooring this year. Stan do you think the bow eye alone can >> hold? A noreaster is rolling into my anchorage tonight! >> ? >> >>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 5:01 PM, Sean Allen <seanallen1206 at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> ?Thanks Jay (and all) as this has been really helpful. >>> >>> I've got 6 pilings in my slip. I was thinking of using two 3/8" bow lines >>> around each piling with snubbers both connected to the bow cleat, then >> two >>> 3/8" stern lines with snubbers each connected from the piling to each >> stern >>> cleat, and I think i might put spring cleats in approximately mid-ship by >>> the windows and run a 1/2" spring line with snubbers on each side (using >>> the grab rails temporarily). >>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:15 PM Jay Friedland <jayf401 at gmail.com> >> wrote: >>>> >>>> Sean, >>>> I should also add that the Tide-minders prevent any side movement in my >>>> relatively narrow slip. On the spring lines, I use heavy-duty snubbers >> (for >>>> up to 5/8” line) to give the boat some forward movement beyond the >> stretch >>>> of the lines. With the occasional excessive tides, I use the midship >> cleat >>>> adjustment along with the snubbers to keep the boat centered with >> tension, >>>> not just the extreme stretch of the spring lines. >>>> Jay >>>> >>>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 1:58 PM, Jay Friedland <JayF401 at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Sean, >>>>> It all depends on the exposure to the elements. Mel & I are on the same >>>> island but completely different factors to deal with. Mel is fairly >>>> protected in a lagoon, so his lines are fine for that location. >> Wanderlust >>>> is in a narrow slip in a marina with a sea wall surrounding the boats. >> It >>>> has 11’ of clearance, and exposed to high winds, some wave action and >> up to >>>> 2-1/2’ of tidal change. While it’s not all visible in the attached photo >>>> (if it’s not stripped away), is the following, using all 1/2” lines- >>>>> >>>>> 1) bow lines to pilings at a 90° >>>>> 2) spring lines to adjustable midship cleats on 1” T-tracks, 30” of >>>> movement >>>>> 3) Tide-minders on each stern line >>>>> >>>>> I’ve been through over 12 seasons of squalls, glancing hurricanes, >>>> excessive tides and only have to worry about other people’s boats. The >>>> other advantage of midship cleats is the versatility of docking in many >>>> situations. I hope this helps. >>>>> >>>>> Jay Friedland >>>>> S/v Wanderlust, ‘97 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <Screen Shot 2020-04-22 at 1.40.16 PM.png> >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 1:22 PM, Sean Allen <seanallen1206 at gmail.com >>>> <mailto:seanallen1206 at gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm launching my boat in to a new slip in a few weeks and I'm curious >> if >>>>>> and how other Rhodes owners use spring lines? Mine only has one bow >>>> cleat >>>>>> and two on the stern. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've heard of others using the grab rail on the bulk head mentioned. >>>>>> >>>>>> Has anyone installed additional cleats? Is that advisable? >>>>>> >>>>>> The marina is in tidal waters (Barnegat Bay) with quite a bit of wake >>>> on a >>>>>> daily basis. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 5:52 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> There is a real advantage to rigging the anchor line thru the bow eye vs. >> directly to the bow cleat. The choice of the bow eye vs. the bow cleat has >> a significant effect on the anchor scope. This is because the bow eye is >> ~1.5 ft closer to the water vs the bow cleat. For example, suppose we are >> anchoring in 7 feet of water. The bow eye is ~2 feet above the water and >> the bow cleat is ~3.5 feet above the water. Suppose we let out 65 feet of >> anchor rode. The scope using the bow eye is 65 / (7 + 2) = 7.2 The scope >> using the bow cleat is 65 / (7 + 3.5) = 6.2 A scope of 7.2 is sufficient >> for decent overnight holding with a minimum 65 foot radius swing circle. A >> scope of 6.2 is marginal for an overnight night stay. Sometimes, there >> isn’t sufficient swing room to let out more anchor rode, say if you are the >> last boat to drop the hook in a crowded anchorage. In addition, it’s >> considered bad anchoring etiquette to use up all the swing room in an >> anchorage even if you are the first one there. >> >> Fortunately, you don’t have to tie off to the bow eye in order to get the >> scope advantage of using it. Simply run the anchor rode thru the bow eye >> first, then up to the bow cleat, and cleat it off. This will give you all >> the scope advantage of using the bow eye and all the ease of tying off to >> the bow cleat. When departing, reach down and hook the anchor rode with a >> boat hook below the bow eye. Pull the anchor rode on board, hang on to it, >> and then uncleat the rode from the bow cleat. Easy peasy and no stress on >> the knees! >> >> I always use the bow eye in the manner described above. There is just no >> reason not to, the extra safety margin on scope helps me sleep better, and >> I don’t annoy my fellow boaters. >> >> Roger Pihlaja >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium >> >> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for >> Windows 10 >> >> From: Lowe, Rob<mailto:rlowe at vt.edu> >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 10:16 AM >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>; Art >> Czerwonky<mailto:a_czerwonky at yahoo.com> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines >> >> I must say I read that wrong. Even though I responded bow eye, I was >> thinking bow cleat. I agree with Graham's method using two lines running >> through the chocks to the bow cleat. - rob >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf of Art >> Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 10:03 AM >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines >> >> I agree fully with your recommendation, Graham. The bow eye is not >> suitable for the shock loads of mooring. Art CzerwonkyMaryJane, Atlanta >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >> >> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:44 AM, Graham Stewart<gstewart8 at cogeco.ca> >> wrote: Personally I prefer to not use the bow eye for mooring. For one >> thing it is difficult to reach the bow eye if you have old knees. I prefer >> to rune two nylon lines from the mooring through the chocks and to the bow >> cleat. It is much easier to attach and release and gives you two lines >> instead of one. I have no doubt that either the eye or the cleat is plenty >> strong. Whichever you use do not connect the boat to the mooring with chain. >> >> Graham Stewart >> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >> Kingston Ontario >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf >> Of Lowe, Rob >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 9:02 AM >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines >> >> I can't speak for Stan, but I've never heard of a bow eye on the Rhodes >> giving way. Still doesn't mean it can't happen. I'd inspect the backing >> plate up in the V berth next time you can and see if it's snug and looks >> adequate. - rob >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf of >> Goodness <spreadgoodnews at gmail.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:36 PM >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines >> >> I went with a mooring this year. Stan do you think the bow eye alone can >> hold? A noreaster is rolling into my anchorage tonight! >> ? >> >>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 5:01 PM, Sean Allen <seanallen1206 at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> ?Thanks Jay (and all) as this has been really helpful. >>> >>> I've got 6 pilings in my slip. I was thinking of using two 3/8" bow lines >>> around each piling with snubbers both connected to the bow cleat, then >> two >>> 3/8" stern lines with snubbers each connected from the piling to each >> stern >>> cleat, and I think i might put spring cleats in approximately mid-ship by >>> the windows and run a 1/2" spring line with snubbers on each side (using >>> the grab rails temporarily). >>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:15 PM Jay Friedland <jayf401 at gmail.com> >> wrote: >>>> >>>> Sean, >>>> I should also add that the Tide-minders prevent any side movement in my >>>> relatively narrow slip. On the spring lines, I use heavy-duty snubbers >> (for >>>> up to 5/8” line) to give the boat some forward movement beyond the >> stretch >>>> of the lines. With the occasional excessive tides, I use the midship >> cleat >>>> adjustment along with the snubbers to keep the boat centered with >> tension, >>>> not just the extreme stretch of the spring lines. >>>> Jay >>>> >>>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 1:58 PM, Jay Friedland <JayF401 at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Sean, >>>>> It all depends on the exposure to the elements. Mel & I are on the same >>>> island but completely different factors to deal with. Mel is fairly >>>> protected in a lagoon, so his lines are fine for that location. >> Wanderlust >>>> is in a narrow slip in a marina with a sea wall surrounding the boats. >> It >>>> has 11’ of clearance, and exposed to high winds, some wave action and >> up to >>>> 2-1/2’ of tidal change. While it’s not all visible in the attached photo >>>> (if it’s not stripped away), is the following, using all 1/2” lines- >>>>> >>>>> 1) bow lines to pilings at a 90° >>>>> 2) spring lines to adjustable midship cleats on 1” T-tracks, 30” of >>>> movement >>>>> 3) Tide-minders on each stern line >>>>> >>>>> I’ve been through over 12 seasons of squalls, glancing hurricanes, >>>> excessive tides and only have to worry about other people’s boats. The >>>> other advantage of midship cleats is the versatility of docking in many >>>> situations. I hope this helps. >>>>> >>>>> Jay Friedland >>>>> S/v Wanderlust, ‘97 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <Screen Shot 2020-04-22 at 1.40.16 PM.png> >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 1:22 PM, Sean Allen <seanallen1206 at gmail.com >>>> <mailto:seanallen1206 at gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm launching my boat in to a new slip in a few weeks and I'm curious >> if >>>>>> and how other Rhodes owners use spring lines? Mine only has one bow >>>> cleat >>>>>> and two on the stern. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've heard of others using the grab rail on the bulk head mentioned. >>>>>> >>>>>> Has anyone installed additional cleats? Is that advisable? >>>>>> >>>>>> The marina is in tidal waters (Barnegat Bay) with quite a bit of wake >>>> on a >>>>>> daily basis. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>
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